Better And Better

If you don't draw yours, I won't draw mine. A police officer, working in the small town that he lives in, focusing on family and shooting and coffee, and occasionally putting some people in jail.

Thursday, April 06, 2017

Shotguns: Let it. Go.

For my entire police career, I've been fielding Remington Model 870 shotguns. I know how to operate them, and have by choice gone hunting with them, to great success. I'm moderately okay with them on the trap and skeet ranges. I respect the 870, and have chosen it over other pump shotguns in the past.

Can we get over the pump shotgun, for police patrol work? Or at least create a double-action pump gun, in which the first shot is pumped, and the rest are semi-auto?

The last time that I pulled out a pump shotgun on a guy, I found myself broadcasting orders to the (himself shotgun-armed) actor over my patrol car's public address system, while pointing my temporarily-single-shot shotgun at the actor and speaking into the microphone in my hand.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: The day of the pump shotgun in patrol should be over.

There are ample quality semi-auto shotguns out there.

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At Friday, April 07, 2017 7:36:00 PM, Blogger pigpen51 said...

What are your thoughts on the carbine type weapon, such as the ubiquitous AR 15. That would seem like a decent compromise between the shotgun as a force multiplier and a gun that is more useful in todays environment. I am not a professional, and don't even own an AR type rifle, it is just a thought.

At Saturday, April 08, 2017 12:30:00 AM, Blogger Matt G said...

Patrol carbines are far more valuable than shotguns, in my opinion. Still, there is a place for shotguns on patrol. If I were required to choose one or the other, however, I would definitely choose an accurate, reliable carbine, such as a quality name-brand AR-15. I carry an M4.

At Tuesday, April 11, 2017 8:46:00 AM, Anonymous Alien said...

Matt, what are your thoughts on an up-powered pistol caliber carbine, say, in 10MM?

At Tuesday, April 11, 2017 10:18:00 PM, Blogger Matt G said...

I think that they would be fun, and potentially useful, though how much more useful than a simple M4 I couldn't say, and an M4 has more range. I would be curious which would be easier to suppress. The FBI used to use them, in HK MP-5s. I've never shot a HK MP-5 94 Vector, but it might be fun, and might be useful.

I've often wondered about a carbine which would chamber .357 Sig, and come in variants which take common pistol magazines. Something short (12" barrel?), with a solid buttstock, with good sights and a good trigger, which took Glock 31 mags might be interesting. But general, if you're going to use a carbine, use a rifle caliber.

At Wednesday, April 12, 2017 11:04:00 AM, Blogger Old NFO said...

I'd think something along the lines of the Beretta 1301 would work.

At Wednesday, April 19, 2017 9:45:00 AM, Blogger Matt G said...

You're right, Old NFO. The Beretta 1301s are feature-rich, and have a good reputation, too. And the price is comparable. I haven't shot them side-by-side with other autos, but supposedly the action is a little faster to cycle, too.

At Thursday, April 20, 2017 12:15:00 PM, Anonymous Dwight Brown said...

"I've often wondered about a carbine which would chamber .357 Sig, and come in variants which take common pistol magazines...."

Ha! Over the weekend, some of us were shooting at a friend's private range, and he mentioned he was building a 9mm AR that was set up to take Glock magazines. My first thought: gee, I wonder if you could build something like that in .357 DIG? (According to my friend, .357 SIG uppers for this are available, but not common and priced to match.)

"Still, there is a place for shotguns on patrol."

Not a professional, and this is not a challenge, but I've been spending a lot of time in citizen's [police academy classes and listening to police officers talke, and I'm wondering: can you elaborate a little on what you see as the place of the patrol shotgun? It seems to me, at least out where I'm spending a lot of my time these days, the engagement distances are either within pistol range, or far enough out to where a patrol rifle would be more effective.

(I'm not taking into account things like beanbag and taser shotguns, bit I sort of put those in a different category than the patrol shotgun: more like single purpose tools.)

Again, this isn't a challenge: you know more than I do. I've just been wondering about the purpose of the shotgun today.

At Monday, April 24, 2017 6:44:00 PM, Blogger Matt G said...

You know what I've shot at, mostly, on the job and outside of the range? Animals. We have to periodically put down animals. I keep a couple of rounds of birdshot on the sling for this purpose. For bigger animals like deer that have been hit, a single blast below the ear from a shotgun ensures no suffering; instant off switch. Also, for breeching, there's nothing better when you have to go it alone. It slices, it dices, it opens doors, and instantly can be used to eliminate the threat in a house. Frankly, when we have the circus come to town, everyone gets an extra loadout for their shotguns, because while a rogue large cat or elephant is unlikely, it's also one of those situations where a gauge beats a .223.

I also think of the old reports of how the NYPD Emergency Services squad would deal with window shooters. They would get up in a room across the street opposite the shooter, and when he popped up to shoot, they would snap-shoot with a load or two of #4 birdshot to the shooter's face. Then they'd send up a squad to go fetch him out. Finally, shotguns do actually have a psychological effect, and are nice for when you're riding two-man, and want a cover.

At Tuesday, April 25, 2017 2:56:00 PM, Anonymous Dwight Brown said...

You're good people, Matt G. Thanks for the honest answer.

At Saturday, June 17, 2017 5:55:00 PM, Blogger Alex said...

Hey Matt,

Is JPG (Johnny) over at Expert Witness your father? Very cool if so! Didn't know blogging ran in the family even though he isn't too active anymore.

I had a quick question for you if you don't mind emailing me, thanks a bunch!


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